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First_Claim_and_SecondRespond to Article "HEBREW CHRISTIANS": BIBLICAL PARADOX OR RELIGIOUS REALITY (First Claim and Second) This article are taken from http://yaakovbaruch.multiply.comMany individuals are confused by the arguments of the "Hebrew Christians" and are unaware of the Jewish response to the "Hebrew Christians' " claims that: 1) Jews can retain their Jewish identity once they convert. 2) The Jewish Bible is full of prophetic references to Jesus. 3) Spiritual salvation and a personal relationship with G-d can only come through Jesus. 4) Miracles "prove" the validity of Christianity. 5) The Christian belief in the Trinity of G-d is compatible with Judaism. It is our hope that by examining each claim and the corresponding Jewish response, Judaism's position will be clearly understood. CLAIM # 1: "JEWS CAN RETAIN THEIR JEWISH IDENTITY ONCE THEY CONVERT " In their attempt to convert Jews, missionaries claim that one can remain Jewish while practicing Christianity. The use of terminology such as "Messianic Jew," "Hebrew Christian," and "Jew for Jesus" is but a deceptive attempt to represent converted Jews as Jewish.1 In fact, missionaries even go so far as to claim that a Jew who accepts Jesus (or "Yeshua," as they call him) is a "completed Jew," implying of course that all other Jews are incomplete. The misrepresentation and deception employed in this attempt to disguise the seriousness of a Jew's conversion to Christianity is similarly reflected in the widespread misuse of Jewish symbols and customs, in the fabrication of Jewish texts, and in the misrepresentation of the background and Jewish education of many "Hebrew Christians." Numerous "Hebrew Christian" leaders dishonestly refer to themselves as "rabbis" and to their places of worship as "synagogues."2 These tactics are employed in an attempt to render their version of Christianity more palatable to the Jews they seek to convert. However, in the words of one of the numerous Christian groups which condemn "Hebrew Christianity," "These proselytizing techniques are tantamount to coerced conversions and should be condemned." (From a formally adopted statement issued by the Interfaith Conference of Metropolitan Washington, D.C.) The Jewish Response The fact remains that, regardless of superficial attempts to sound Jewish, the term "Hebrew Christian," or "Jew for Jesus," is an oxymoron and a theological contradiction. So-called "Hebrew Christians" argue that a person who is born Jewish can never lose his birthright or heritage. However, the Bible teaches that your beliefs do influence your Jewish status and that a person who was born a Jew can at some point temporarily cease to be called a Jew. In the Book of Kings, Elijah the prophet is sent to rebuke those Jews who were worshiping a foreign god called Baal. In I Kings 18:21, Elijah says to them, "How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is G-d, follow Him: but if Baal, follow him." In other words, you are either a Jew or a worshiper of Baal; you can't be both. The story concludes with the Jews renouncing their idolatrous ways and returning to Judaism. From this, we derive an important lesson. A Jew who follows another religion is Jewish only to the point that he retains a spiritual obligation to repent and to return to Judaism. However, as long as his beliefs are idolatrous and foreign to Judaism, he cannot call himself a Jew. (It is important to note that a non-practicing Jew is different from a Jew who has chosen to follow a foreign path.) The Torah teaches that Jews and non-Jews are given different paths to reach G-d. A Jew is obligated to follow the Torah, while a non-Jew must observe the Seven Laws of the Children of Noah.3 One group isn't better than the other, merely different. Therefore, certain beliefs and practices, like eating pork, are permissible for non-Jews but not for Jews. Similarly, the majority of Christian beliefs concerning G-d, salvation and the Messiah do not violate the Noahide covenant for non-Jews, but are absolutely forbidden for Jews. That is why the term "Messianic Jew," "Hebrew Christian," or "Jew for Jesus," is a contradiction. --------------------------------------------------> Christian Response You said "In the Book of Kings, Elijah the prophet is sent to rebuke those Jews who were worshiping a foreign god called Baal. In I Kings 18:21, Elijah says to them, "How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is G-d, follow Him: but if Baal, follow him." In other words, you are either a Jew or a worshiper of Baal; you can't be both. The story concludes with the Jews renouncing their idolatrous ways and returning to Judaism." You are misinterpreting the text. Elijah is facing the idol worshippers,not Jesus worshipper. Can you give us proof that we Christian,Jews or Gentiles,worship Baal? You said "From this, we derive an important lesson. A Jew who follows another religion is Jewish only to the point that he retains a spiritual obligation to repent and to return to Judaism. However, as long as his beliefs are idolatrous and foreign to Judaism, he cannot call himself a Jew. (It is important to note that a non-practicing Jew is different from a Jew who has chosen to follow a foreign path.)" I ask you,Jews are Jews because he worship God or because he is naturally born Jews? Isaiah 41:8-9 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away. Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. Jews are Jews because They are seed of Abraham,by bloodlines,not because they are worshipping God. You can not become Jews eventhough you convert yourself to Judaism You said.. "The Torah teaches that Jews and non-Jews are given different paths to reach G-d. A Jew is obligated to follow the Torah, while a non-Jew must observe the Seven Laws of the Children of Noah.3 One group isn't better than the other, merely different. Therefore, certain beliefs and practices, like eating pork, are permissible for non-Jews but not for Jews. Similarly, the majority of Christian beliefs concerning G-d, salvation and the Messiah do not violate the Noahide covenant for non-Jews, but are absolutely forbidden for Jews. That is why the term "Messianic Jew," "Hebrew Christian," or "Jew for Jesus," is a contradiction." Do you think your statement are VALID according to the Hebrew Bible?? Exodus 12:43-51 And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof: But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof. A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof. In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof. All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. Thus did all the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they. And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the LORD did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies. Non Jews have to follow Jews Ordinances if they want to reach God! They have to follow The Law Covenant,not Noah's Covenant with God CLAIM # 2 "THE JEWISH BIBLE IS FULL OF PROPHETIC REFERENCES TO JESUS" "Hebrew Christians" believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah, and they attempt to prove this by quoting various passages from the Jewish Bible. Such quotations may sound impressive, overwhelming and confusing to anyone with only a passing knowledge of Judaism and with no command of the Hebrew language. The Jewish Response 1) The only reason these passages, or so-called "proof texts," appear to be alluding to Jesus is because they have been misquoted, mistranslated, or taken out of context. Any written work, if mistranslated or taken out of context, can be made to suggest meanings which were never intended, as the following examples will clearly demonstrate. The New Testament is no exception. For example, in the New Testament, (Luke 14:26) Jesus is quoted as saying: "If anyone comes to me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." An initial reading of this verse gives the impression that one must hate one's family, and even oneself, as a prerequisite to being a Christian. However, any Christian confronted with a literal reading of this passage will react defensively and insist that the verse doesn't mean that at all. It only appears that way, he or she will explain, because it is being read out of context and without a proper translation. This is precisely the point we would like to make. What a verse says and what it means may be completely different. Before one can understand any verse properly, whether from the Jewish Scriptures or from the New Testament, it must be read in context and with an accurate translation. Similarly, when a missionary quotes a verse from Jewish Scriptures, one should ascertain that the verse is being rendered correctly. For example, Psalm 22:17 from the Hebrew Bible, when correctly translated, reads"They surrounded my hands and feet like a lion4," referring to King David being pursued by his enemies, who are often referred to as a lion (as in Psalms 7 and 17). Yet, when read out of context and mistranslated as"They pierced my hands and feet," as appears in Christian versions, the passage intentionally conjures up thoughts of Jesus. This example demonstrates only one of the many verses that the missionaries twist and mistranslate to suit their purposes. Judaism has a response and an explanation for each such instance. The rule of thumb is to always ask: "Are these verses being read in context and with an accurate translation?" Sadly, most "Hebrew Christians" blindly accept the Christian interpretation without ever having heard or fully understood the Jewish view. After an open-minded re-examination of both sides, thousands of "Hebrew Christians" have returned to Judaism. 2) Missionaries often use the New Testament as proof that events or prophecies in their mistranslated passages have been fulfilled. However, to someone familiar with the Jewish Bible, it is obvious that the touted "inerrancy" (i.e., lack of error) of the New Testament is highly questionable. Consider the following examples: a) In three different places in the Jewish Bible, (Genesis 46:27, Exodus 1:5 and Deuteronomy 10:22,) it is stated that the patriarch Jacob came to Egypt with a total of 70 persons. Acts 7:14 in the New Testament incorrectly gives this number as 75. b) Hebrews 8:8-13 of the New Testament, when quoting from Jeremiah, states that G-d replaced His Covenant with the Jews with a "New Covenant," claiming that, because the Jews did not keep the "Old Covenant," G-d "no longer cared for them." However, the original Hebrew text in Jeremiah 31:32 of the Jewish Bible does not say that G-d did not care for them, but rather that He "remained a husband to them." Some Christians interpret their translation to mean that G-d broke His Covenant and rejected the Jewish people. This is completely inconsistent with the biblical stance that the commandments are forever (Psalm 119:151-152) and that G-d promised to never reject or break His Covenant5 with the Jews (Judges 2:1 and Leviticus 26:44-45). c) Hebrews 10:5 of the New Testament, when quoting Psalm 40, claims that G-d replaced animal sacrifices with the death of the Messiah, by stating that, "sacrifices and offerings You have not desired, but a body You have prepared for Me." However, the original quote from Psalm 40:6 does not say this; it says, "sacrifices and meal offerings You have not desired; My ears You have opened." This refers to G-d's desire that we listen to Him, as it says, "Behold! -- to obey is better than sacrifice." (I Samuel 15:22) Fundamentalist Christians readily accept the Jewish Scriptures as the inspired and "inerrant" word of G-d and as the foundation for the New Testament. If they were to be logically consistent, it would follow that, wherever the "Old" and "New" Testaments contradict each other, the New Testament must be admitted to be obviously the one which is in error. Christian Response You Said "Similarly, when a missionary quotes a verse from Jewish Scriptures, one should ascertain that the verse is being rendered correctly. For example, Psalm 22:17 from the Hebrew Bible, when correctly translated, reads"They surrounded my hands and feet like a lion4," referring to King David being pursued by his enemies, who are often referred to as a lion (as in Psalms 7 and 17). Yet, when read out of context and mistranslated as"They pierced my hands and feet," as appears in Christian versions, the passage intentionally conjures up thoughts of Jesus." Let us Read Psalm 22:16 (in Hebrew Bible,at Indonesian Text Psalm 22:17) כִּ֥י סְבָב֗וּנִי כְּלָ֫בִ֥ים עֲדַ֣ת מְ֭רֵעִים הִקִּיפ֑וּנִי כָּ֝אֲרִ֗י יָדַ֥י וְרַגְלָֽי׃ kij svâvvnij klâvijm ‛adat mrē‛ijm hiqijfvnij kâ'arij jâdaj vraglâj For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. אַרְיֵהא ַרִי ('arjēh' arij) Means a lion Etymology: (prolonged) earyeh {ar-yay'} in the sense of violence יָד (jâd) Means a hand (the open one (indicating power, means, direction, etc.), in distinction from H3709, the closed one); used (as noun, adverb, etc.) in a great variety of applications, both literally and figuratively, both proximate and remote (as follows); Etymology: a primitive word,cannot be traced back רֶגֶל (regel) Means a foot (as used in walking); by implication, a step; by euphem. the pudenda; This word cannot be traced back Ka ' arij jâdaj vraglâj means that both dogs and the wicked (they) pierced him so the one who get pierced ROAR LIKE A LION (in the sense of violence). That is Why Jesus are called Lion of Judah, literally because he roar like a lion when his hands and his feet are pierced. Has David sense this horrible things in his life? NO. This prophecy cannot be connected to David You Said "If they were to be logically consistent, it would follow that, wherever the "Old" and "New" Testaments contradict each other, the New Testament must be admitted to be obviously the one which is in error." Old and New don't contradict each other,eventhough there are contrast between Covenants. The way you think who makes both of them contradiction Let us check your statement You said "In three different places in the Jewish Bible, (Genesis 46:27, Exodus 1:5 and Deuteronomy 10:22,) it is stated that the patriarch Jacob came to Egypt with a total of 70 persons. Acts 7:14 in the New Testament incorrectly gives this number as 75." Are you accusation VALID? Then sent Joseph, and called his father Jacob to [him], and all his kindred, threescore and fifteen souls. aposteilas de iōsēph metekalesato ton patera autou iakōb kai pasan tēn suggeneian autou en psukhais hebdomēkonta pente Hebdomekonta pente means 60+10 (Hebdomekonta) + 5(pente) Are this wrong and not relevant to Genesis? Genesis 46:1-27 46:1 And Israel took his journey with all that he had, and came to Beersheba, and offered sacrifices unto the God of his father Isaac. 46:2 And God spake unto Israel in the visions of the night, and said, Jacob, Jacob. And he said, Here am I. 46:3 And he said, I am God, the God of thy father: fear not to go down into Egypt; for I will there make of thee a great nation: 46:4 I will go down with thee into Egypt; and I will also surely bring thee up again: and Joseph shall put his hand upon thine eyes. 46:5 And Jacob rose up from Beersheba: and the sons of Israel carried Jacob their father, and their little ones, and their wives, in the wagons which Pharaoh had sent to carry him. 46:6 And they took their cattle, and their goods, which they had gotten in the land of Canaan, and came into Egypt, Jacob, and all his seed with him: 46:7 His sons, and his sons' sons with him, his daughters, and his sons' daughters, and all his seed brought he with him into Egypt. 46:8 And these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt, Jacob and his sons: Reuben, Jacob's firstborn. 46:9 And the sons of Reuben; Hanoch, and Phallu, and Hezron, and Carmi. 46:10 And the sons of Simeon; Jemuel, and Jamin, and Ohad, and Jachin, and Zohar, and Shaul the son of a Canaanitish woman. 46:11 And the sons of Levi; Gershon, Kohath, and Merari. 46:12 And the sons of Judah; Er, and Onan, and Shelah, and Pharez, and Zarah: but Er and Onan died in the land of Canaan. And the sons of Pharez were Hezron and Hamul. 46:13 And the sons of Issachar; Tola, and Phuvah, and Job, and Shimron. 46:14 And the sons of Zebulun; Sered, and Elon, and Jahleel. 46:15 These be the sons of Leah, which she bare unto Jacob in Padanaram, with his daughter Dinah: all the souls of his sons and his daughters were thirty and three. 46:16 And the sons of Gad; Ziphion, and Haggi, Shuni, and Ezbon, Eri, and Arodi, and Areli. 46:17 And the sons of Asher; Jimnah, and Ishuah, and Isui, and Beriah, and Serah their sister: and the sons of Beriah; Heber, and Malchiel. 46:18 These are the sons of Zilpah, whom Laban gave to Leah his daughter, and these she bare unto Jacob, even sixteen souls. 46:19 The sons of Rachel Jacob's wife; Joseph, and Benjamin. 46:20 And unto Joseph in the land of Egypt were born Manasseh and Ephraim, which Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On bare unto him. 46:21 And the sons of Benjamin were Belah, and Becher, and Ashbel, Gera, and Naaman, Ehi, and Rosh, Muppim, and Huppim, and Ard. 46:22 These are the sons of Rachel, which were born to Jacob: all the souls were fourteen. 46:23 And the sons of Dan; Hushim. 46:24 And the sons of Naphtali; Jahzeel, and Guni, and Jezer, and Shillem. 46:25 These are the sons of Bilhah, which Laban gave unto Rachel his daughter, and she bare these unto Jacob: all the souls were seven. 46:26 All the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, which came out of his loins, besides Jacob's sons' wives, all the souls were threescore and six; 46:27 And the sons of Joseph, which were born him in Egypt, were two souls: all the souls of the house of Jacob, which came into Egypt, were threescore and ten. 33+16+14+7 are 70 Where the other FIVE? 46:26 All the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, which came out of his loins, besides Jacob's sons' wives, all the souls were threescore and six; Beside Jacob's son wife,there are only 66 Let's take a look at Jacob's descendant whom have sons Ruben Simeon Levi Judah Issachar Zebulun Gad Asher Benjamin There are nine wives whom came into Egypt with Jacob! 66+9 is… 75 You said "Hebrews 8:8-13 of the New Testament, when quoting from Jeremiah, states that G-d replaced His Covenant with the Jews with a "New Covenant," claiming that, because the Jews did not keep the "Old Covenant," G-d "no longer cared for them." However, the original Hebrew text in Jeremiah 31:32 of the Jewish Bible does not say that G-d did not care for them, but rather that He "remained a husband to them." Some Christians interpret their translation to mean that G-d broke His Covenant and rejected the Jewish people. This is completely inconsistent with the biblical stance that the commandments are forever (Psalm 119:151-152) and that G-d promised to never reject or break His Covenant5 with the Jews (Judges 2:1 and Leviticus 26:44-45). My Answer Of Course God Remained to be A Husband For Israel,but..Israel really does break Covenant with God by worshipping others. God NEVER EVER REJECTING JEWS,but He do RENEWED HIS COVENANT WITH JEWS Jeremiah 31:31-34 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Hebrews 10:5 of the New Testament, when quoting Psalm 40, claims that G-d replaced animal sacrifices with the death of the Messiah, by stating that, "sacrifices and offerings You have not desired, but a body You have prepared for Me." However, the original quote from Psalm 40:6 does not say this; it says, "sacrifices and meal offerings You have not desired; My ears You have opened." This refers to G-d's desire that we listen to Him, as it says, "Behold! -- to obey is better than sacrifice." (I Samuel 15:22) Fundamentalist Christians readily accept the Jewish Scriptures as the inspired and "inerrant" word of G-d and as the foundation for the New Testament" Hebrew 10:5 are not directly quoting to Psalm 40:6-8,but to what Jesus Said on Matthew 9:13, Matthew 12:7,and Jesus qouting to HOSEA  From the site of John Vanriza http://vanriza.multiply.com/journal/item/131REFUTING CHRISTIAN "PROOF TEXTS" While traveling through a forest, a person noticed a circle marked on a tree with an arrow shot perfectly into the center. A few yards away he noticed several more targets, each with arrows in the center. Later, he met the talented archer and he asked him, "How did you become such an expert that you always get your arrows into the center of the bull's-eye?" "It's not difficult," responded the archer, "First I shoot the arrow and then I draw the circle." When examining Christian "proof texts" that claim to point to Jesus as the promised Messiah, we should always ask the following question. "Has an arrow been shot into a circle or has a circle been drawn around an arrow?" In other words, has the passage been mistranslated, misquoted, taken out of context or fabricated? Here are examples of several ways that missionaries "draw a circle around the arrow" to prove their point. Example 1: THE VERSE HAS BEEN FABRICATED AND DOES NOT EXIST IN the HEBREW SCRIPTURES The easiest prophecy to fulfill is one you yourself have invented. The New Testament certainly bears witness to this principle, fabricating a number of "prophecies" out of thin air and attributing them to our Hebrew Scriptures. The New Testament book of Matthew claims that Jesus was the Messiah since he lived in the city of Nazareth. The New Testament utilizes the following "proof text" to make its point: "He [Jesus] came and resided in a city called Nazareth, that what was spoken through the prophets might be fulfilled. "He shall be called a Nazarene.'" (Matthew 2:23) Since a Nazarene is a resident of the city of Nazareth and this city did not exist during the time period of the Jewish Bible, it is impossible to find this quotation in the Hebrew Scriptures. It was fabricated out of thin air. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My respond "He [Jesus] came and resided in a city called Nazareth, that what was spoken through the prophets might be fulfilled. "He shall be called a Nazarene.'" (Matthew 2:23) Since a Nazarene is a resident of the city of Nazareth and this city did not exist during the time period of the Jewish Bible, it is impossible to find this quotation in the Hebrew Scriptures. It was fabricated out of thin air. From Jewish Resource http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=141&letter=NNazareth is Town in Galilee, situated in a valley to the north of the plain of Esdraelon. It is about 1,200 feet above the level of the Mediterranean. Nazareth first appears in the New Testament as the place where Jesus passed his boyhood (Matt. 2. 23; Luke 1. 26; 2. 4, 39, 51; John 1. 46 et seq.; Acts 10. 38). It is not mentioned in the Old Testament, or in Josephus or the Talmud (though Eleazar alir [8th and 9th cent.] in the elegy "Ekah Yashebah" mentions the priestly class of Nazareth ["Mishmeret"], doubtless on the basis of some ancient authority). This has led Wellhausen ("Israelitische und Jüdische Gesch." p. 220) and Cheyne (Cheyne and Black, "Encyc. Bibl.") to conjecture that "Nazareth" is a name for Galilee. Such an inference is in the highest degree precarious. It is evident from John 1. 46 that Nazareth was an obscure place for Jews. During the Biblical period Japhia was the important town of the locality and attracted to itself all the notice of historians. The name of Galilee has already been mentioned on Old Testament since Joshua's Times Joshua 20:7 And they appointed Kedesh in Galilee in mount Naphtali, and Shechem in mount Ephraim, and Kirjatharba, which is Hebron, in the mountain of Judah. Nazaret is Part of Galilee,it is not fabricated out of thin air,eventhough it is start appear on pre New Testament era, Nazareth was a strongly Jewish settlement in the Roman period From General Resource http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NazarethWhy we can not find prophets whom said that Jesus shall be called Nazarene..? Matthew 23:37-39 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Nehemiah 9:26 Given Proof that Jews Killed Their Own Prophets..that is why we cannot find this prophecy everywhere on Old Testament. There are possibilities that some prophets whom said that Jesus will be called Nazarene are being killed by Jews and their sayings are not recorded by Old Testament ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Example 2: THE VERSE IS MISTRANSLATED An effective missionary will work with crude English retranslations of earlier Greek mistranslations, and will avoid looking at the original Hebrew. In Romans 11:26, the Christian Bible quotes Isaiah 59:20 as saying, "The deliverer will come from Zion, he willremove ungodliness from Jacob," thus attempting to establish scriptural support for the Christian belief that the Messiah will take away our sins. How-ever, a careful examination of the Hebrew original reveals a powerful dilemma. Isaiah 59:20 actually says the opposite: "A redeemer will come to Zion and to those who turn fromtransgression in Jacob, declares the Lord." The Messiah's role is not to take away our sins; rather, when we turn away from our sins, the Messiah will then come! It is also noteworthy that many New Testaments translate this verse correctly in Isaiah and incorrectly in Romans. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My Respond Rome 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: Isaiah 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. Lets take a look at Codex of Old and New Testament Rome 11:26 kai houtōs pas israēl sōthēsetai kathōs gegraptai ēxei ek siōn ho ruomenos kai apostrepsei asebeias apo iakōb Exei ek or come out are literally phrase which can be divided as ‘ηκω (hēkō) Means to come, i.e. be present (literally or figuratively); Etymology: a primary verb. This word VERB which has attribute Future Active Indicative 3rd Person and Singular εκ εξ (ek ex) a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote); Isaiah 59:20 וּבָ֤א לְצִיֹּון֙ גֹּואֵ֔ל וּלְשָׁבֵ֥י פֶ֖שַׁע בְּיַֽעֲקֹ֑ב נְאֻ֖ם יְהוָֽה׃ bvo' lcijōvn gōv'ēl vlsâvēj fesa‛ bja‛aqōv n'um jhvâh בּוֹא (bvō') - to go or come (in a wide variety of applications); Bvo means to go or come, this word is primitive word This is problem when parsing from Hebrew to Greek, bvo are translated to exei ek,but according to definition of ancient Hebrew text,this prophecy of Isaiah are not mistranslated -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Example 3: THE PASSAGE IS MISTRANSLATED AND READ OUT OF CONTEXT In an attempt to prove the concept of the "virgin birth," the book of Matthew 1:22-23 states: "Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, "Behold a virgin shall be with child and will bear a son and they shall call his name Emmanuel,' which translated means, G-d with us." Missionaries claim that this is the fulfillment of a prophecy recorded in Isaiah 7:14, that actually reads: "Behold,the young woman is with child and will bear a son and she will call his name Emmanuel." There are numerous inaccuracies in the Christian translation. For example: 1) The Hebrew word, "almah -," means a young woman, not a virgin, a fact recognized by biblical scholars1; 2) The verse says "ha'almah--," "the young woman," not a young woman, specifying a particular woman that was known to Isaiah during his lifetime; and 3) The verse says "she will call his name Emmanuel," not "they shall call." Even apart from these inaccuracies, if we read all of Isaiah Chapter 7, from which this verse is taken, it is obvious that Christians have taken this verse out of context. This chapter speaks of a prophecy made to the Jewish King Ahaz to allay his fears of two invading kings (those of Damascus and of Samaria) who were preparing to invade Jerusalem, about 600 years before Jesus' birth. Isaiah's point is that these events will take place in the very near future (and not 600 years later, as Christianity claims). Verse 16 makes this abundantly clear: "For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken." In fact, in the very next chapter this prophecy is fulfilled with the birth of a son to Isaiah. As it says in Isaiah 8:4, "For before the child shall know to cry, "My father and my mother' the riches of Damascus and the spoils ofSamaria shall be taken away before the king of Assyria." This verse entirely rules out any connection to Jesus, who would not be born for 600 years. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My Respond Isa 7:14 לָ֠כֵן יִתֵּ֨ן אֲדֹנָ֥י ה֛וּא לָכֶ֖ם אֹ֑ות הִנֵּ֣ה הָעַלְמָ֗ה הָרָה֙ וְיֹלֶ֣דֶת בֵּ֔ן וְקָרָ֥את שְׁמֹ֖ו עִמָּ֥נוּ אֵֽל׃ lâkēn jitēn 'adōnâj hv' lâkem 'ōvt hinēh hâ‛almâh hârâh vjōledet bēn vqârâ't smōv ‛imânv 'ēl definition of ‛almâh according to Ancient Text of Hebrew Testament a lass (as veiled or private); Etymology: feminine of ‛elem,root of this word is עָלַם (‛âlam) Meaning of root word : to veil from sight, i.e. conceal (literally or figuratively) do you think that young woman that Isaiah pointed out is not VIRGIN....while Isaiah used almah which means this young woman is VEILED? the problem of this text is parsing method from Hebrew to Greek Words.. קָרָא (qârâ') - to call out to (i.e. properly, address by name, but used in a wide variety of applications); Etymology: a primitive root Isaiah 7:14 are translated like this idou hē parthenos en gastri hexei kai texetai huion kai kaleosousin to onoma autou emmanouēl ho estin methermēneuomenon meth hēmōn ho theos καλεσουσιν (kaleosousin) on Matthew 1:23 is Verb which indicate as Future Active Indicative -3rd Person and PLURAL. This word are using when translated qara to greek.Because of this "kaleosousin" attributes are PLURAL,that is why when this Greek Word translated to english by KJV translator (or others),kaleosousin are translated to "they shall call" Behold a virgin shall be with child and will bear a son and "they" shall call his name Emmanuel,' which translated means, G-d with us." but if you traces back to hebrew word "qara",it will be only "call out",because qara is not masculine or feminine,addition of SHE at Isa 7:14 on Old Testament is taken from the preceding premise to refer to young woman Behold,---->the young woman<--- is with child and will bear a son and -->she<--- will call his name Emmanuel." there is no SHE on Isaiah 7:14,it has been added by Jews at the later times Example 4: VIEWED IN CONTEXT, THE VERSE COULD NOT REFER TO JESUS In Hebrews 1:5, the New Testament quotes a verse from II Samuel 7:14, "I will be a Father to him, and he shall be a son to Me." This is said to be a prophetic reference to Jesus as the son of G-d. However, if we look at this verse from II Samuel in its entirety, the verse doesn't end with the phrase quoted in the New Testament, but continues: "When he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men." This cannot possibly fit the Christian Bible's view of a "sinless" Jesus. In addition, the verse is speaking specifically about King Solomon, as is obvious from I Chronicles 22:9-10, "His name shall be Solomon . . . he shall build a house for My name and I will be a Father to him and he will be a son to Me." The Bible frequently refers to individuals as G-d's "son." In fact, G-d refers to the entire nation of Israel in the following manner, "Israel is My son, My firstborn." (Exodus 4:22) II Samuel 7:14-16 He shall build an house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever. This is what we called Double Progressive Prophecy,since this prophecy to Solomon ARE NOT FULLFILLED BY SOLOMON. God said to Solomon that if HE COMMIT INIQUITY,GOD WILL CHASTEN HIM…and that's really happen to Solomon..his kingdom are tearing apart by God. Jews cannot prove that this prophecy are fullfilled by Solomon,because his kingdom are not everlasting kingdom which last forever. Also Jews cannot prove that this prophecy of everlasting kingdom are proven fullfilled by Jewish Kings, NOT ONE OF THEM fullfilled this prophecy right until now. Only Jesus can.. Why I said Only Jesus Can?? Lets take a look comparation between Jesus and Solomon Jesus--build the Church, House for God's Name (Mat 16:18) Solomon--build the Temple,House for God's Name (1 Chronicles 6:10) Jesus--Jesus said that his kingdom is not come from this world.His Kingdom still not established until now, this prophecy still not fullfilled until his second coming Solomon--His Kingdom are totally ruined,Solomon cannot fullfill this prophecy FOREVER.. WESTERN WALL are the proof Both Jesus and Solomon are sons of God,but… Jesus--didn't commit iniquity,He PLEASED the Father. He died in your behalf Solomon--Commit iniquity,He has 1000 (wives+concubines) and eventually he fall into other god's worship because his adultery and self indulgence Jesus--Do not need mercy of God,because he is sinless. Instead,Jesus Gives Mercy Solomon--God said in this prophecy of Nathan that He will have mercy to Solomon and God will forgive his mistake Example 5: THE PASSAGE IS NOT A PROOF Missionaries incorrectly claim that Jesus fulfilled a prophesy that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem. They attempt to utilize Michah 5:2 as their proof text: "But you Bethlehem Ephratah, though you are small among the thousands of Judah, out of you will come to Me one who will be ruler in Israel, whose goings out are from ancient time, from days of old." This verse is not a prophesy that the Messiah will be born in Bethlehem. The passage simply states it has been preordained that the Messiah would be able to trace his roots back to Bethlehem. This is consistent with the Biblical statement that the Messiah will be a descendant of King David, who was from Bethlehem, as seen in I Samuel 16:18. There is another problem with this missionary proof text. A major distinction must be made between a scripture that serves as a proof that someone is the Messiah and a scriptures that simply states a requirement of the Messiah. A proof must be something so exclusive that only one individual can fulfill it. For example: One criterion of the Messiah is that he must be Jewish. If an individual is Jewish, he has fulfilled this particular requirement; however, in and of itself, this is obviously not a proof that the individual is the Messiah since millions of individuals are Jewish and they all meet this criterion. Therefore, the claim that Jesus was born in Bethlehem would not prove a thing, since thousands of children were born there. My Respond Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Mic 5:1 וְאַתָּ֞ה בֵּֽית־לֶ֣חֶם אֶפְרָ֗תָה צָעִיר֙ לִֽהְיֹות֙ בְּאַלְפֵ֣י יְהוּדָ֔ה מִמְּךָ֙ לִ֣י יֵצֵ֔א לִֽהְיֹ֥ות מֹושֵׁ֖ל בְּיִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל וּמֹוצָאֹתָ֥יו מִקֶּ֖דֶם מִימֵ֥י עֹולָֽם׃ v'atâh bējtlechem 'efrâtâh câ‛ijr lihjōvt b'alfēj jhvdâh mimkâ lij jēcē' lihjōvt mōvsēl bjisrâ'ēl vmōvcâ'ōtâjv miqedem mijmēj ‛ōvlâm Mic 5:2 לָכֵ֣ן יִתְּנֵ֔ם עַד־עֵ֥ת יֹולֵדָ֖ה יָלָ֑דָה וְיֶ֣תֶר אֶחָ֔יו יְשׁוּב֖וּן עַל־בְּנֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃ lâkēn jitnēm ‛ad‛ēt jōvlēdâh jâlâdâh vjeter 'echâjv jsvvvn ‛albnēj jisrâ'ēl עֹלָםע וֹלָם (‛ōlâm‛ vōlâm) MEANS - properly, concealed, i.e. the vanishing point; - generally, time out of mind (past or future), i.e. (practically) eternity; - frequentatively, adverbial (especially with prepositional prefix) always; Etymology: or lolam {o-lawm'}; from alam (same primitive word of almah) Your statement "The passage simply states it has been preordained that the Messiah would be able to trace his roots back to Bethlehem" Is not VALID,since Micha 5:1-2 used OVLAM as adverbial of times which means Everlasting..Of course Messiah could be traced back to Bethlehem,but his true roots are coming since the day of old, from everlasting Jesus is Fullfilled Many Words of God in The Old Testament,as he Said Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. He comes to fullfill the Old Testament..need more prove? Tell me your objection and The Bible itself will tell you ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7 Comments: angel2bright wrote today at 10:45 AM Thanks for sharing some of your points, sir I do not delve much into religion, and with regards to differences I respect others' viewpoints but perhaps you could bear with me in sharing some of the things I've learned from some of my Christian friends. Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." The Gk. word used for "fulfill" in the passage is plerosai, which by definition means to complete or, (to fill to the fullest). So the Christ came not to abolish, nor to destroy but to "uphold the law" by bringing it to life---re-vitalizing it, to its full essence. So that explains the message of Christ in the subsequent passages on Matthew 5:17. He, (in plain statement) stresses that obedience to the law shouldn't be just an outward show to gain popularity and men's admiration (like the hypocritical, self-righteous, samaritan-hating, "holier-than-thou" pharisees do) but rather, it must come from the purity of one's heart motivated with pure love, all the more because we know that the "letter without the spirit, kills." Rooted from a misconception of Ro. 10:4 stating that Christ "ended" the law, there are some others who believe that Christ came to "wipe out the law" on the cross, when in fact He didn't, as can be clearly seen above. The Gk. word used for "ended" in Romans, is "teleo" which doesn't necessarily imply a "termination" but rather, a "completion" or an "accomplishment." Fact is, it is the same word applied on Jo. 19:30, when the Christ uttered in a loud cry: Tetelestai! "It is finished" which means it is "accomplished." Hence, by a close scrutiny of the Scriptures, one can see a flawless perfection between the two passages. That's all for me to share. Again thank you and have a wonderful day, sir. All the Best, Rai ---------------------------------------------------- mishkaned wrote today at 11:16 AM AMEN RAI..HOW REFRESHING! ------------------------------------------------------------ vanriza wrote today at 12:33 PM Thank You Rai,for sharing more knowledge of God into our account! ----------------------------------------------------- mishkaned wrote today at 12:41 PM Please Vanriza, would you please write your testimony, I would like to read it. When I heard you were a Muslim, it came a strong desire to read your Testimony........to the glory of Messiah Yeshua....:) ------------------------------------------------- vanriza wrote today at 12:46 PM mishkaned said Please Vanriza, would you please write your testimony, I would like to read it. When I heard you were a Muslim, it came a strong desire to read your Testimony........to the glory of Messiah Yeshua....:) I have one,sis,in this multiply,but on Indonesian Version.. I will translate that testimony to English Version for you. When i finished,I Will tell you so you can look at that Glory is Only For Yeshua Hamashiakh! ------------------------------------------------- mishkaned wrote today at 1:10 PM THANK YOU!.....:) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- richsoil wrote today at 2:01 PM Thanks bro' John I believe you have been do the writting all day long. Good job. I do really appreciate it. HaSHeM bless you abundantly  THE MESSIAH ACCORDING TO JUDAISM Posted by yaakov on Jun 19, '08 11:17 AM for everyone http://yaakovbaruch.multiply.com/journal/item/2One of the basic premises upon which Christianity rests is that Jesus was the Messiah predicted in the Jewish Bible. Judaism has always rejected this belief. Since the goal of "Hebrew Christian" missionaries is to convince Jews that Jesus did in fact fulfill the requirements of the promised Messiah, it is necessary to examine the Jewish understanding of the Messiah to understand why such claims are simply not true. THE HEBREW ROOTS OF THE WORD "MESSIAH" The Hebrew word for "Messiah" is "Moshiach --." The literal and proper translation of this word is "anointed," which refers to a ritual of anointing and consecrating someone or some-thing with oil. (I Samuel 10:1-2) It is used throughout the Jewish Bible in reference to a wide variety of individuals and objects; for example, a Jewish king (I Kings 1:39), Jewish priests (Leviticus 4:3), prophets (Isaiah 61:1), the Jewish Temple and its utensils (Exodus 40:9-11), unleavened bread (Numbers 6:15), and a non-Jewish king (Cyrus king of Persia, Isaiah 45:1). THE CRITERIA TO BE FULFILLED BY THE JEWISH MESSIAH In an accurate translation of the Jewish Scriptures, the word "Moshiach" is never translated as "Messiah," but as "anointed."1Nevertheless, Judaism has always maintained a fundamental belief in a Messianic figure. Since the concept of a Messiah is one that was given by G-d to the Jews, Jewish tradition is best qualified to describe and recognize the expected Messiah. This tradition has its foundation in numerous biblical references, many of which are cited below. Judaism understands the Messiah to be a human being (with no connotation of deity or divinity) who will bring about certain changes in the world and who must fulfill certain specific criteria before being acknowledged as the Messiah. These specific criteria are as follows: 1) He must be Jewish. (Deuteronomy 17:15, Numbers 24:17) 2) He must be a member of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10) and a direct male descendent of both King David (I Chronicles 17:11, Psalm 89:29-38, Jeremiah 33:17, II Samuel 7:12-16) and King Solomon. (I Chronicles 22:10, II Chronicles 7:18) 3) He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel. (Isaiah 27:12-13, Isaiah 11:12) 4) He must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. (Micah 4:1) 5) He must bring world peace. (Isaiah 2:4, Isaiah 11:6, Micah 4:3) 6) He must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one G-d. (Isaiah 11:9, Isaiah 40:5, Zephaniah 3:9) All of these criteria for the Messiah are best stated in the book of Ezekiel chapter 37:24-28: "And My servant David will be a king over them, and they will all have one shepherd, and they will walk in My ordinances, and keep My statutes, and observe them, and they shall live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant...and I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their G-d and they will be My people. And the nations will know that I am the Lordwho sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever." If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, he cannot be the Messiah. WHY JESUS COULD NOT HAVE BEEN THE JEWISH MESSIAH A careful analysis of these criteria shows us that, although Jesus was Jewish, he did not fulfill any of the other criteria. An examination of the contradictory accounts of Jesus' genealogy demonstrates a number of difficulties with the fulfillment of the second criterion. Specifically, the New Testament claims that Jesus did not have a physical father. The Jewish Scriptures, however, clearly state that a person's genealogy and tribal membership is transmitted exclusively through one's physical father (Numbers 1:18, Jeremiah 33:17). Therefore, Jesus cannot possibly be a descendent of the tribe of Judah nor of King David and King Solomon. There are even further problems with any attempts to use the Jewish Scriptures to prove Jesus' genealogy through Joseph, the husband of Mary (Jesus' mother). For the New Testament claims that Joseph was a descendent of King Jeconiah, who in the Hebrew Bible was cursed to never have a descendent "sitting on the throne of David and ruling any more in Judah" (Jeremiah 22:30). Joseph's genealogy, even if it were transmittable to Jesus, would only serve to further disqualify Jesus as the Messiah. Finally, there is the problem of the contradictory accounts of Jesus' genealogy in Matthew, Chapter 1 and Luke, Chapter 3. The common Christian explanation of this contradiction claims that Luke's genealogy is that of Jesus' mother, Mary. However, this is unfounded, even according to the Greek original. In addition, it has already been established that genealogy is transferred solely through the father, making this attempted explanation completely irrelevant. Even if one could trace one's genealogy through one's mother, there would be the additional problem that Luke 3:31 lists Mary as a descendent of David through Nathan, Solomon's brother, and not through Solomon himself as required according to the prophesy in I Chronicles 22:10 of the Jewish Bible. The third, fourth, fifth and sixth criteria have obviously not been fulfilled -- neither during Jesus' time nor since. Any Christian claims that these final criteria will be fulfilled in a "Second Coming" are irrelevant because the concept of the Messiah coming twice has no scriptural basis. To summarize, we cannot know that someone is the Messiah until he fulfills all of the above criteria. The Christian understanding of the Messiah and Jesus differs greatly from the Jewish biblical view. These differences developed as a result of the Church's influence during the time of the Emperor Constantine and the Council of Nicaea that issued the Nicene Creed in 325 CE. The Messiah was never meant to be an object of worship. His primary mission and accomplishment is to bring world peace and to fill the world with the knowledge and awareness of one G-d. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Some form of the Hebrew word "Moshiach -- " is used over 150 times in the Jewish Bible. Christians consistently translate this word as anointed, except in the ninth chapter of Daniel. In this chapter missionaries deviate from this and other correct translations in an attempt to prove that the Messiah came before the destruction of the Second Temple. Rather than speaking about "the Messiah," when read in context and with a correct translation this chapter clearly speaks about two different "anointed" subjects hundreds of years apart: a) The first is the anointed King Cyrus (Isaiah 45:1) who granted permission to the Jews to return and build the Second Temple 52 years "7 weeks of years" after the destruction of the First Temple; b) The second is the anointed priesthood (Leviticus 4:3) that was terminated 434 years "62 weeks of years" later. Tags: mashiach --------------------------------- ALL COMMENTS BEFORE DELETED BY YAACOV: mishkaned wrote on Jun 19UNTRUE ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE! ----------------------------------------------- mishkaned wrote on Jun 19 And tell me how come my pictures have gone from my blog, since I wrote to you. Do you like among other things to sabotage blogs as you go along ? Are you from Yad Le Achim too??????? -------------------------------------------------- yaakovbaruch wrote on Jun 19 your pictures? honestly i dont know about that, i'm not a people like that. i just a President of some Synagogue in Indonesia who try to keep the Community here to not influence by messianic missionary -------------------------------------- mishkaned wrote on Jun 19 You are against Messianic Believers who have experienced the TRUE Messiah who try and SAVE SOME SOULS, because they know, the time is short, YET you, yourselves EVANGELIZE the people around you telling them about the rabbi of Lubavitch z"l who died and is buried more than ten years ago, saying to them that he is moshiach....that is terrible in the sight of God, if YESHUA is indeed MESSIAH! ------------------------------------------ yaakovbaruch wrote on Jun 19We "never" go to fellow jews and said to believe in Lubavitch Rebbe as a Machiach, we "only" put T'filin and Mezuzah in their house. teach the jewish woman to light candle on Shabbat. whats the problem with that? the word "TRUE" Messiah is your group propaganda to our fellow jews. i DONT againts "messianic" believers. what i really "AGAINTS" is "christian missionary" who pretend to be jews, and try to "convert" our people. to bring them from Synagogue at shabbat, move to Church on sunday, to bring them from our people to the goyim. thats what i againts it. once again i tell u honestly that i dont know what happen with your pictures. plz dont make any lashon hara to me, B''H God will open ur eyes and show that i'm not involve in ur pictures damaged. if i make something may God will punish me. ------------------------------------------------------ sunflower1978 wrote on Jun 19Jesus is not the Messiah the Torah talks of... He is right you are wrong Mish get over it ... G ----------------------------------------- yaakovbaruch wrote on Jun 19Thank you once again. may all jews back to the "real" Torah that was given by H-Shem to Moshe rebenu. ---------------------------- sunflower1978 wrote on Jun 19Yaak, Haya Naim Me'od Chabdeihu Vechoshdeihu Meytav HaIchulim! Rav Todot! Zei Mir Gezunt!... Shalom, Gabrielle. ------------------------------- yaakovbaruch wrote on Jun 19Baruch H-Shem, Gut Shabes. ------------------------------------------------- mishkaned wrote on Jun 21yaakovbaruch said yeah gav, i think she is just want make a jokes with us, u see what she said about Chabad? how a BIG liar, we (Chabad) never try to convert gentiles and teach them or the fellow jews that Lubavitch Rebbe is the Messiah, so i think she dont know anything about our Jewish traditions and Halacha, she just same like other missionary mishkaned said: http://mishkaned.multiply.com/photos/album/101#1http://mishkaned.multiply.com/photos/album/101#2 ----------------------------------------- mishkaned wrote on Jun 21yaakovbaruch said i really "AGAINTS" is "christian missionary" who pretend to be jews, and try to "convert" our people. to bring them from Synagogue at shabbat, move to Church on sunday, to bring them from our people to the goyim. You will be surprised to hear, that Messianic Jewish Believers should be going to SYNAGOGUES, worshipping in the Jewish way as usual!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- mishkaned wrote on Jun 21yaakovbaruch saidonce again i tell u honestly that i dont know what happen with your pictures What happened to the pictures, are you unable to see them, I see them very well! Let me know, please.... ------------------------------------------------ yaakovbaruch wrote on Jun 21yes a building with menorah with authentic Sefer Torah, tallism, Kippah etc but full with goy inside who "pretend" as a Jew yaakovbaruch wrote on Jun 21mishkaned saidWhat happened to the pictures, are you unable to see them, I see them very well! Let me know, please.... i just view your "jewish" pictures 2 or 3 hours ago, the problem was a few days ago right? so i really dont know about that 100% mishkaned wrote on Jun 21yaakovbaruch saidyes a building with menorah with authentic Sefer Torah, tallism, Kippah etc but full with goy inside who "pretend" as a Jew I am talking about the rabbi of Lubavich....Do you see him....IT IS WRITTEN HE IS GOD AND MORE THAN GOD, by CHABBAD!!! You must be asleep, if I am to tell you what is happening in Israel.... ----------------------------------------------------- mishkaned wrote on Jun 21, edited on Jun 21yaakovbaruch saidyes a building with menorah with authentic Sefer Torah, tallism, Kippah etc but full with goy inside who "pretend" as a Jew By the way this Jewish guy in the video was once a very known singer. I will bring the video as he was before and you will see true transformation! --------------------------------------- yaakovbaruch wrote on Jun 21Impossible there is Chabadnick said Lubavitch Rebbe is G-d or more then G-d. U are tottaly BIG liar mish. i'm not interest talk with a BIG liar like you ------------------------------------------ mishkaned wrote on Jun 21OH OH OH....now you are doing what you said, we should not say....LASHON HARA!!!! You have his phone number, phone him!!! ------------------------------------------ mishkaned wrote on Jun 21yaakovbaruch saidImpossible there is Chabadnick said Lubavitch Rebbe is G-d or more then G-d. U are tottaly BIG liar mish. i'm not interest talk with a BIG liar like you LET ME WRITE WHAT HE WROTE UNDER THE PHOTO OF THE RABBIE, on one side: The Messiah The Rabbi From Lubavitch is the King of the kings of Kings, the Kadosh Baruch Hu, and more than that!!! This is the God Mashiach! --------------------------------------------- mishkaned wrote on Jun 21yaakovbaruch saidImpossible there is Chabadnick said Lubavitch Rebbe is G-d or more then G-d. U are tottaly BIG liar mish. i'm not interest talk with a BIG liar like you On the other side it is written: The Kadosh Baruch Hu dressed Himself in the King Messiah the rabbi of Lubavitch and therefore the rabbi of Lubavitch and the Kadosh Baruch Hu are the same one. and more..... --------------------------------- yaakovbaruch wrote on Jun 21i dont believe that, there is no teaching in Chabad Lubavitch who said The Rebbe is G-d or Moshiach. as a Chabadnick i believe in 1 G-d who created heaven and earth, believe in Moshiach who will come soon, and The Rebbe is not both of what i believe first (G-d & Moshiach) thats clear. mishkaned wrote today at 2:31 AM, edited today at 2:31 AMWE COMPLETELY AGREE! GOD & MASHIACH! "Mashiach Mashiach Mashiach....Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh...." The question is: WHO IS THIS MASHIACH? Who is Yeshua really? When did He live? Why did the rabbis not receive Him as their Messiah? Which Messiah were the rabbis expecting? What did the rabbis say about Yeshua? Why His Name is not mentioned as a false Messiah in Jewish doctrine? Why His Name is not allowed to be mentioned among religious circles? Could all rabbis be mistaken? Could it be that all the rabbis were blinded and could not see the First Coming of the Messiah? Could it be that one Messiah was to appear in two different ways, and at two different times, as a Servant and as a King? What hope do we have as a Jews, living the way we do? [And God knows the TRUTH about us.....:( ] What is our chances to enter Gan Eden? ----------------------------------- mishkaned wrote today at 2:46 AMMISHKAN ED MESSIAH IN THE JEWISH WRITINGS THE STATE OF GOD'S PEOPLE - THE JEWISH PEOPLE - IN TIME OF MESSIAH Tractate Yoma: The rabbis taught: Forty years before the Temple was destroyed, the lot never came into the right hand, the red wool did not become white, the western light did not burn,and the gates of the Temple opened of themselves, till the time that R.Johanan b. Zakkai rebuked them, saying: "Temple, Temple, why alarmest thou us? We know that thou art destined to be destroyed. For of thee hath prophesied Zechariah ben Iddo [Zech. xi. 1]: 'Open thy doors, O Lebanon, and the fire shall eat thy cedars.'" MESSIAH PROPHECIED Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 99a All the prophets prophesied only about the Yemot haMashiach—the days of the Messiah. Bereisheet Rabbah 2:4 R. Shim'on ben Jaqish explained: 'And the spirit of Elohim hovered over the face of the water' (Gen1:2)—this is the spirit of King Messiah, as it is written, 'And the spirit of the YHWH will rest upon him.' (Yeshayahu 11:2). Pes. Rab. ed. Friedmann, p.152b You find that at the beginning of the creation of the world King Messiah was born. WHEN WAS MESSIAH TO COME Tract Sanhedrin: The disciples of Elijah taught: The world will continue for six thousand years, the first two thousand of which were a chaos (Tahu), the second two thousand were of wisdom, and the third two thousand are the days of the Messiah, and because of our sins many, many years of these have elapsed, and still he has not come. THE SUFFERING MESSIAH The Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin 98b: The Rabbis said: His name [i.e. the name of the Messiah] is “the LEPER scholar,” as it is written, “Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him a leper, smitten of Elohim, and afflicted.” [Yeshayahu 53:4] Ruth Rabbah 5:6: The fifth interpretation [of Ruth 2:14] makes it refer to the Messiah. Come hither: approach to royal state. And eat of the bread refers to the bread of royalty; and dip thy morsel in the vinegar refers to his sufferings, as it is said, “But he was wounded because of our transgressions” (Yeshayahu 53:5). Zohar 2:212a: There is in the Garden of Eden a palace named the Palace of the Sons of Sickness. This palace the Messiah enters, and He summons every pain and every chastisement of Israel. All of these come and rest upon Him. And had He not thus lightened them upon Himself, there had been no man able to bear Israel's chastisements for the transgressions of the Torah; as it is written, “Surely our sicknesses he has carried.” Yalkut ii.620 (13th century), in regard to Psalm 2:6: …I have drawn him out of the chastisements…The chastisements are divided into three parts: one for David and the fathers, one for our own generation, and one for the King Messiah; and this is that which is written, “He was wounded for our transgressions... Commentary on Yeshayahu 53:5 by Rabbi Elijah de Vidas (16th century): But he was wounded, etc.…meaning that since the Messiah bears our iniquities which produce the effect of His being bruised, it follows that whosoever will not admit that the Messiah thus suffers for our iniquities, must endure and suffer for them himself. Nachmanides: And by his stripes we were healed—because the stripes by which he is vexed and distressed will heal us; Elohim will pardon us for his righteousness, and we shall be healed both from our own transgressions and from the iniquities of our fathers. Rabbi Naphtali Ben Asher (ca. 1650 YM) said, I will not proceed to explain these verses of our own Messiah, who Elohim willing will come speedily in our days. I am surprised that Rashi (a famous Jewish commentator on Scripture) and Rabbi David Kimchi (Radak) have not, with the Targums (Talmudic commentaries), applied Isaiah 53 to the Messiah likewise. The Musaf (additional) service for the Day of Atonement, Philips Machzor: Our righteous Messiah is departed from us: horror hath seized us, and we have none to justify us. He hath borne the yoke of our iniquities, and our transgression, and is wounded because of our transgression. He beareth our sins on his shoulder, that he may find pardon for our iniquities. We shall be healed by his wound, at the time that HaShem will create him [the Messiah] as a new creature. O bring him up from the circle of the earth [i.e. heaven]! Raise him up from Seir, to assemble us the second time on Mount Lebanon, by the hand of Yinnon! Pes. Rab. ch. 36 "You have suffered because of the sins of our children, and cruel punishments have come upon you… you were put to ridicule and held in contempt by the nations of the world because of Israel… All this because of the sins of our children… great sufferings have come upon you on their account. And Elohim says to him, 'Be you the judge over these peoples, and do to them whatever your soul wishes… all of them will die from the breath of your lips.' " Mid. Konen, BhM, 2:29 "Eliyahu… says to the Messiah: 'Endure the sufferings and the sentence of your Master who makes you suffer because of the sin of Israel.' And thus it is written: 'He was wounded because of our transgressions.' (Yeshayahu 53:5) - until the time of the end comes." SON OF JOSEPH – SON OF DAVID Said Rabh: They found another passage and lectured about it, namely [Zech., xii. 12]: "And the land will mourn, every family apart by itself, the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart." And they said: Is this not an a fortiori conclusion? At the time of mourning, when the passions are powerless, it is said the women and the men should be separate; so much the more in the Temple, where they were occupied in rejoicing, and the passions can have power over them. The rabbis taught: Messiah BEN DAVID, who (as we hope) will appear in the near future, the Holy One, blessed be He, will say to him: Ask something of me and I will give it to thee, as it is written [Ps. ii. 7-8]: "I will announce the decree . . . Ask it of me, and I will give," etc. But as the Messiah BEN DAVID will have seen that the Messiah BEN JOSEPH who preceded him was killed, he will say before the Lord: Lord of the Universe, I will ask nothing of Thee but life. And the Lord will answer: This was prophesied already for thee by thy father David [Ps. xxi. 5]: "Life hath he asked of thee, thou gavest it to him." Sukkah 52 Raphael Patai, a Jewish Bible scholar who does not believe in Yeshua, sheds considerable light on the history of this rabbinical legend about the Messiah, in his book, The Messiah Texts. Patai writes: “Scholars have repeatedly speculated about the origin of the Messiah BEN Joseph legend and the curious fact that the Messiah figure has thus been split in two. It would seem that in the early legend, the death of the Messiah was envisaged, perhaps as a development of the SUFFERING SERVANT motif. A prophecy of Daniel, written about 164 B.C.E.,[18] is the earliest source speaking of the DEATH of a Mashiah (‘Anointed’) sixty-two (prophetic) weeks...after the return and the rebuilding of Jerusalem (Dan. 9:24-26...)....When the death of the Messiah became an established tenet in Talmudic times, this was felt to be irreconcilable with the belief in the Messiah as the Redeemer who would usher in the blissful millennium of the Messianic age. The dilemma was solved by splitting the person of the Messiah in two: One of them, called Messiah BEN JOSEPH...would fall victim....The other, Messiah BEN DAVID, will come after him...and will lead Israel to the ultimate victory, the triumph, and the Messianic era of bliss. This splitting of the Messiah in two persons, which took place in the Talmudic period, achieved another purpose besides resolving the dilemma of the slain Messiah. According to an old tradition, the Messiah was perfectly prefigured in Moses. But Moses died before he could lead the Children of Israel into the Land of Promise. Consequently, for the parallel to be complete, the Messiah, too had to die before accomplishing his great task of ultimate Redemption. Since, however, the Messiah would not be the True Redeemer of God if he did not fulfill that ultimate task, the only solution was to let one Messiah, like Moses, die, and then assign the completion of the work of Redemption to a second Messiah....” Raphael Patai, The Messiah Texts, pp. 166-167. What was the mourning for? R. Dosa and the rabbis differ: One holds that it was for the Messiah the SON OF JOSEPH, who was killed; 1 and one holds that it was for the evil angel, who was killed. 2 It would be right according to one who holds that it was for the Messiah the son of Joseph, because he explains as supporting him the passage [Zech. xii.10]: "And they will look up toward me (for every one) whom they have thrust through, and they will lament for him, as one lamenteth for an only son, and weep bitterly for him, as one weepeth bitterly for the firstborn" Mosheh Alshekh (16th century) interpretation of Z'kharyah 12:10: I will do yet a third thing, and that is, that “they shall look unto me,” for they shall lift up their eyes unto me in perfect repentance, when they see him whom they pierced, that is Messiah, the SON OF YOSEPH; for our rabbis, of blessed memory, have said that he will take upon himself all the guilt of Israel, and shall then be slain…to make an atonement, in such a manner, that it shall be accounted as if Israel had pierced him, for on account of their sin he has died; and therefore, in order that it may be reckoned to them as a perfect atonement, they will repent, and look to the blessed One, saying that there is none beside Him to forgive those that mourn on account of him who died for their sin: this is the meaning of “They shall look upon me.” Rashi commenting on Zech xii. 10 - - The words, “The land shall mourn,” are found in the prophecy of Z'kharyah, and he prophesies of the future, that they shall mourn on account of Messiah, the SON OF YOSEPH, who shall be slain… MESSIAH NAME Lamentations Rabba 1:51 What is the name of King Messiah? Rabbi Abba bar Kahana said: Y-H-W-H is His name, for it is written, I will raise for David a tzemach of righteousness …In his days Y'hudah shall be saved…And this is the Name whereby he shall be called: YHWH Tzidkenu (YHWH our Righteousness) (Yirmeyahu 23:5-6).” Babylonian Talmud, Order Nashim, Tractate Baba Bathra 75b: Rabbi Sh'muel bar Nahmani said in the name of Rabbi Yohanan: “Three are called by the name of HaQadosh baruch hu (the Set-Apart One, blessed be He), and they are: the righteous, the Messiah and Yerushalayim.” HIGHER THAN MOSES AND ANGELS Yalkut ii: 571 (13th century): The King Messiah…is greater than the patriarchs, as it is said, “My servant shall be high, and lifted up, and lofty exceedingly”—he will be higher than Abraham,…lifted up above Moshe,…loftier than the ministering angels. METATRON Sanhedrin 38b Once a Min said to R. Idith: It is written, "And unto Moses He said, Come up to the LORD." But surely it should have stated, Come up unto Me! — It was Metatron [who said that], he replied, whose name is similar to that of his Master, for it is written, For My name is in Him. But if so, [he retorted,] we should worship him! The same passage, however, — replied R. Idith says: Be not rebellious against him, i.e., exchange Me not for Him. But if so, why is it stated: He will not pardon your transgression? He answered: By our troth we would not accept him even as a messenger, for it is written, "And he said unto him, If Thy [personal] presence go not etc." Stockholm's erstwhile chief Rabbi, Professor Gottlieb Klein, in a work published in 1898, sets forth Metatron's main features as portrayed in the Jewish literature: "Metatron is the nearest person to God, serving Him; on the one hand his confident and delegate, on the other hand the representative of Israel before God... Metatron is also known as Sar ha-Panîm, the 'Prince of the Countenance' or just as 'the Prince', and he sits in God's innermost chamber (penim). The numeric value of 'Metatron' is the same as that of Shaddai, 'the Almighty'. He is therefore the delegate of the Almighty. Shaddai (10+4+300) = 314 and Metatron (50+6+200+9+9+40) = 314." -------------------------------------------------------- mishkaned wrote today at 3:35 PMWhat happened, Yaakov, you have not yet come to this page to delete it all ? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ALL COMMENTS AFTER DELETED BY YAACOV: 27 Comments Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. ----------------------------------------------- yaakovbaruch wrote on Jun 19 your pictures? honestly i dont know about that, i'm not a people like that. i just a President of some Synagogue in Indonesia who try to keep the Community here to not influence by messianic missionary ------------------------------------------- Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. ---------------------------------------- yaakovbaruch wrote on Jun 19 We "never" go to fellow jews and said to believe in Lubavitch Rebbe as a Machiach, we "only" put T'filin and Mezuzah in their house. teach the jewish woman to light candle on Shabbat. whats the problem with that? the word "TRUE" Messiah is your group propaganda to our fellow jews. i DONT againts "messianic" believers. what i really "AGAINTS" is "christian missionary" who pretend to be jews, and try to "convert" our people. to bring them from Synagogue at shabbat, move to Church on sunday, to bring them from our people to the goyim. thats what i againts it. once again i tell u honestly that i dont know what happen with your pictures. plz dont make any lashon hara to me, B''H God will open ur eyes and show that i'm not involve in ur pictures damaged. if i make something may God will punish me. ----------------------------------------------- sunflower1978 wrote on Jun 19 Jesus is not the Messiah the Torah talks of... He is right you are wrong Mish get over it ... G --------------------------------------------------------- yaakovbaruch wrote on Jun 19 Thank you once again. may all jews back to the "real" Torah that was given by H-Shem to Moshe rebenu. ----------------------------------------------------------- sunflower1978 wrote on Jun 19 Yaak, Haya Naim Me'od Chabdeihu Vechoshdeihu Meytav HaIchulim! Rav Todot! Zei Mir Gezunt!... Shalom, Gabrielle. --------------------------------------------------- yaakovbaruch wrote on Jun 19 Baruch H-Shem, Gut Shabes. ---------------------------------------------- Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. -------------------------------------- yaakovbaruch wrote on Jun 21 yes a building with menorah with authentic Sefer Torah, tallism, Kippah etc but full with goy inside who "pretend" as a Jew ------------------------------------------ yaakovbaruch wrote on Jun 21 mishkaned said What happened to the pictures, are you unable to see them, I see them very well! Let me know, please.... i just view your "jewish" pictures 2 or 3 hours ago, the problem was a few days ago right? so i really dont know about that 100% ---------------------------------------------- Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the author. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. ---------------------------------------------------- yaakovbaruch wrote on Jun 21 i dont believe that, there is no teaching in Chabad Lubavitch who said The Rebbe is G-d or Moshiach. as a Chabadnick i believe in 1 G-d who created heaven and earth, believe in Moshiach who will come soon, and The Rebbe is not both of what i believe first (G-d & Moshiach) thats clear. -------------------------------------------- Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. -------------------------------------------- mishkaned wrote today at 1:17 AM How dull your page looks like.... NOW! ---------------------------------------------- Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the author. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. -------------------------------------------------------- richsoil wrote today at 4:37 AM mishkaned said How dull your page looks like.... NOW! Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the author. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Comment deleted at the request of the thread owner. Yaacov, why you do that? If you postings such journal you should knowledge the writting very well, so no comment that you could not answer back. This is the risk you should aware from the beginning before you decide to post something on your page. -----------------------------------------------------  From the site of DARALHARB: http://daralharb.multiply.com/journal/item/399Muslim Mindset: 'The hatred is in Muhammad himself' To Westerners and moderate Muslims shocked by the radical form of Islam now topping nightly newscasts, the efforts of liberal-minded Muslims like Tawfik Hamid, Italian Sheikh Abdul Hadi Palazzi and a handful of others may seem like the perfect solution. Not so for Ali Sina, who has a different suggestion: destroy Islam. Sina, who runs Faith Freedom International - an Internet forum dedicated to debunking Islam - calls himself "probably the biggest anti-Islam person alive." The publication of his latest book, Understanding Muhammad: A Psychobiography of Allah's Prophet, will likely cement that position. In it, Sina suggests that Islam's central figure suffered from a series of mental disorders, including narcissistic personality disorder, temporal lobe epilepsy and obsessive compulsive disorder. "These disorders," he says via telephone, "can explain the phenomenon known as Islam... which is nothing but one man's insanity." Sina grew up a non-practicing Muslim. Raised in Iran, educated in Pakistan and Italy and now living in Canada, he began jousting with believers in the 1990s. What bothered him, he tells The Jerusalem Post, was not the penchant for jihad and intolerance that certain fanatical Muslims displayed, but the foundation for such ills in the Koran and core Islamic texts. (Through the Faith Freedom Web site, Sina lists canonical references to Muhammad's actions and offers $50,000 to anyone who can disprove Sina's charge that Islam's prophet was "a narcissist, a misogynist, a rapist, a pedophile, a lecher, a torturer, a mass murderer, a cult leader, an assassin, a terrorist, a mad man and a looter." Respondents relentlessly attack Sina's motives, but none has won the prize.) With violent conquest and contempt for non-believers central to the tenets of the faith, Sina argues, attempts to forge a moderate form of Islam are doomed. "The idea that Islam can be reformed is a fallacy," he scoffs. "It's like saying we can reform Nazism and it will be a wonderful party." No, says Sina, "The only way to reform Islam is to throw away the Koran; 90 percent of it should be thrown away. You also have to throw away the history of Islam, and you have to completely disregard the Sira" - the Arabic term used for the various traditional Muslim biographies of Muhammad, from which most historical information about his life and the early period of Islam is derived. For this reason, Sina says, Western suggestions that extremism in Islam can be eradicated if certain imams are quieted, or if Muslims are encouraged to embrace the universalist elements of their faith - but without addressing the extremism inherent in the religion's texts - are based on a mistaken comparison of Islam to Christianity. "In the West, people ask whether Islam can undergo a reformation like the one that Christianity underwent. That's a poor parallel," he says. "In Christianity, it wasn't the religion that needed to be reformed, but the church; what Jesus preached was good." On the other hand, Sina continues, "In Islam, it's not the community that is bad, but the religion. Islam has nothing like 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.' Islam is full of hatred, and the hatred is in Muhammad himself. I argue in my book that Muhammad was insane - and that Muslims, by emulating him and by emulating his ways, his insanity is bequeathed to them." BY NOW, CRITICS of Islam are fairly common in the West. And there are more than a few former Muslims who have rejected Islam in favor of Christianity, citing the difference between their former religion's overwhelming focus on hatred and their newfound faith's central teaching of love and forgiveness. But, like Wafa Sultan, Ibn Warraq, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and the handful of other apostate Muslims demanding that Muslims reject the negative aspects of their religion, Sina's critiques are especially problematic. "People have to dismiss me some way, they have to put me down in one way or another. I'm a Jew, I'm a Christian, I'm a Hindu. I'm whatever people want to say in order to discredit me," says Sina, who closely guards his true identity because of the death threats he receives. "But they can't ignore my questions." Sina has little patience for those who believe they can temper Islam with reason and mutual respect, or for those who remain cowed by the masses of Muslim devotees around the world. "Islam is the biggest hoax, the biggest lie," he says. "Yes, a billion people believe it. But truth is truth. People will eventually see it. Believe me, there is no other answer. We will pay a great price until we realize that this is the solution - to undermine Islam itself, to show Muslims that this religion is not from God, that Muhammad was a charlatan and a liar." Sina knows that his blunt, outspoken approach can be "problematic." But he is confident nonetheless that the force of his arguments will ultimately prevail. "I am sure that, with time, I will convince millions and millions of Muslims, and the foundations of Islam will collapse," he says. Already, he continues, Faith Freedom has attracted an impressive amount of attention. "In Iran, my site is banned. In many parts of Pakistan, it is banned. The list goes on," he says. "Despite this, I have over 10 million readers in just over two and a half years. And I have received letters from Muslims from all over the world. Muslims everywhere are paying attention. I believe that Muslims everywhere are realizing that something is amiss. "If I didn't have so much success in convincing people, then I would not be so confident. But I see that truth works. So many people who are now writing for me and putting things up on Youtube; seven or eight years ago, we were having fierce debates. Now, they are my greatest allies. There are many people who have seen the light after reading FFI and many of them are now working on my side, trying to help others to see the truth. "This is the way to fight evil. I do not want to kill the enemy. I want to win them as friends and allies. That is the real victory. In this way, we win because we eliminate our enemy, and our enemy wins by eliminating his ignorance and hate. That is why I believe in my cause. That is why I think I am an instrument of peace." -------------------------------------------------- 14 Comments: tgep wrote on Jun 21 He happens to be 100% correct. -------------------------------------------- daralharb wrote on Jun 21 He in fact is 100% correct AND i don't think he has to worry about parting with 50,000 any time soon. --------------------------------------- rifleshooter wrote on Jun 21 May God walk with him. --------------------------------------- crazybear1971 wrote on Jun 21 daralharb said "In the West, people ask whether Islam can undergo a reformation like the one that Christianity underwent. That's a poor parallel," he says. "In Christianity, it wasn't the religion that needed to be reformed, but the church; what Jesus preached was good." Well said and smart! ------------------------------------------ mommacherry wrote on Jun 22 I just finished reading a book called "The Truth About Muhammad: Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion." It was written by Robert Spencer, the director of Jihad Watch and Dhimmi Watch. I found this to be a most informative read as well. Definatley plan on checking out Sina's book as well. The best defense to knowing your enemy and protecting yourself from that enemy is knowledge...thank you for spreading that knowledge and keeping us all informed with the truth!! God Bless!! ----------------------------------------- aldajjal wrote on Jun 22 Moe & his murder cult are fully exposed by Allah's book and Moe's Sunnah. A careful reading of the Qur'an & Hadith will bear out what Ali Sina has said. Read about how Moe received his revelations. Read about Wudu, ablution & Salat. All doubt will be erased; Sina will be confirmed. ----------------------------------------------- mishkaned wrote on Jun 22 mommacherry said The best defense to knowing your enemy and protecting yourself from that enemy is knowledge...thank you for spreading that knowledge and keeping us all informed with the truth!! I agree with you ! Know them and expose the truth! There is another side to look at, we need to know: The TRUE enemy is Satan. Satan uses those whom the very image of God is gone from them. If you are a Believer in Yeshua - Jesus, you are to make Spiritual warfare against those evil forces. -------------------------------------- tgep wrote on Jun 22 IMMORTAL COMBAT ! ----------------------------------- tgep wrote on Jun 22 vanriza wrote on Jun 22 Muhammad is the greatest pervert world has ever known..Most of the time on his mind is sex,lust and immorality http://vanriza.multiply.com/journal/item/119http://vanriza.multiply.com/journal/item/120http://vanriza.multiply.com/journal/item/121 --------------------------------------------- ninjamommy wrote on Jun 22 I have great respect for Mr.Sina. He has many allies, that is for sure. I know I am proud to be counted among those allies. Thanks for posting this piece, Dar. I am sure there are some out there who haven't made it over to FFI yet, or heard of Mr.Sina. Rock on, fellow infidels. :) --------------------------------------------- rifleshooter wrote on Jun 22 I just added FaithFreedom.org to my links... ------------------------------------ richsoil wrote on Jun 22 ninjamommy said I have great respect for Mr.Sina. He has many allies, that is for sure. I know I am proud to be counted among those allies. Thanks for posting this piece, Dar. I am sure there are some out there who haven't made it over to FFI yet, or heard of Mr.Sina. Rock on, fellow infidels. :) Yeah rock on, fellow infidels... Thanks Dar for this great info. Blessings. --------------------------------------------- raf1027 wrote on Jun 22 mishkaned said I agree with you ! Know them and expose the truth! There is another side to look at, we need to know: The TRUE enemy is Satan. Satan uses those whom the very image of God is gone from them. If you are a Believer in Yeshua - Jesus, you are to make Spiritual warfare against those evil forces. I highlighted mishkaned's statement as I truly agree with this as well. Well stated! Dar, as always you have posted an outstanding educated post. Thank you for this. God Bless you~ Ana --------------------------------------------  http://mishkaned.multiply.com/journal/item/1206/17._MESSIAH_IN_THE_JEWISH_WRITINGSMISHKAN ED MESSIAH IN THE JEWISH WRITINGS Compiled By Marlene Malachi THE STATE OF GOD'S PEOPLE IN TIME OF MESSIAH Tractate Yoma: The rabbis taught: Forty years before the Temple was destroyed, the lot never came into the right hand, the red wool did not become white, the western light did not burn,and the gates of the Temple opened of themselves, till the time that R.Johanan b. Zakkai rebuked them, saying: "Temple, Temple, why alarmest thou us? We know that thou art destined to be destroyed. For of thee hath prophesied Zechariah ben Iddo [Zech. xi. 1]: 'Open thy doors, O Lebanon, and the fire shall eat thy cedars.'" MESSIAH PROPHECIED Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 99a All the prophets prophesied only about the Yemot haMashiach—the days of the Messiah. Bereisheet Rabbah 2:4 R. Shim'on ben Jaqish explained: 'And the spirit of Elohim hovered over the face of the water' (Gen1:2)—this is the spirit of King Messiah, as it is written, 'And the spirit of the YHWH will rest upon him.' (Yeshayahu 11:2). Pes. Rab. ed. Friedmann, p.152b You find that at the beginning of the creation of the world King Messiah was born. WHEN WAS MESSIAH TO COME Tract Sanhedrin: The disciples of Elijah taught: The world will continue for six thousand years, the first two thousand of which were a chaos (Tahu), the second two thousand were of wisdom, and the third two thousand are the days of the Messiah, and because of our sins many, many years of these have elapsed, and still he has not come. THE SUFFERING MESSIAH The Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin 98b: The Rabbis said: His name [i.e. the name of the Messiah] is “the LEPER scholar,” as it is written, “Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him a leper, smitten of Elohim, and afflicted.” [Yeshayahu 53:4] Ruth Rabbah 5:6: The fifth interpretation [of Ruth 2:14] makes it refer to the Messiah. Come hither: approach to royal state. And eat of the bread refers to the bread of royalty; and dip thy morsel in the vinegar refers to his sufferings, as it is said, “But he was wounded because of our transgressions” (Yeshayahu 53:5). Zohar 2:212a: There is in the Garden of Eden a palace named the Palace of the Sons of Sickness. This palace the Messiah enters, and He summons every pain and every chastisement of Israel. All of these come and rest upon Him. And had He not thus lightened them upon Himself, there had been no man able to bear Israel's chastisements for the transgressions of the Torah; as it is written, “Surely our sicknesses he has carried.” Yalkut ii.620 (13th century), in regard to Psalm 2:6: …I have drawn him out of the chastisements…The chastisements are divided into three parts: one for David and the fathers, one for our own generation, and one for the King Messiah; and this is that which is written, “He was wounded for our transgressions... Commentary on Yeshayahu 53:5 by Rabbi Elijah de Vidas (16th century): But he was wounded, etc.…meaning that since the Messiah bears our iniquities which produce the effect of His being bruised, it follows that whosoever will not admit that the Messiah thus suffers for our iniquities, must endure and suffer for them himself. Nachmanides: And by his stripes we were healed—because the stripes by which he is vexed and distressed will heal us; Elohim will pardon us for his righteousness, and we shall be healed both from our own transgressions and from the iniquities of our fathers. Rabbi Naphtali Ben Asher (ca. 1650 YM) said, I will not proceed to explain these verses of our own Messiah, who Elohim willing will come speedily in our days. I am surprised that Rashi (a famous Jewish commentator on Scripture) and Rabbi David Kimchi (Radak) have not, with the Targums (Talmudic commentaries), applied Isaiah 53 to the Messiah likewise. The Musaf (additional) service for the Day of Atonement, Philips Machzor: Our righteous Messiah is departed from us: horror hath seized us, and we have none to justify us. He hath borne the yoke of our iniquities, and our transgression, and is wounded because of our transgression. He beareth our sins on his shoulder, that he may find pardon for our iniquities. We shall be healed by his wound, at the time that HaShem will create him [the Messiah] as a new creature. O bring him up from the circle of the earth [i.e. heaven]! Raise him up from Seir, to assemble us the second time on Mount Lebanon, by the hand of Yinnon! Pes. Rab. ch. 36 "You have suffered because of the sins of our children, and cruel punishments have come upon you… you were put to ridicule and held in contempt by the nations of the world because of Israel… All this because of the sins of our children… great sufferings have come upon you on their account. And Elohim says to him, 'Be you the judge over these peoples, and do to them whatever your soul wishes… all of them will die from the breath of your lips.' " Mid. Konen, BhM, 2:29 "Eliyahu… says to the Messiah: 'Endure the sufferings and the sentence of your Master who makes you suffer because of the sin of Israel.' And thus it is written: 'He was wounded because of our transgressions.' (Yeshayahu 53:5) - until the time of the end comes." SON OF JOSEPH – SON OF DAVID Said Rabh: They found another passage and lectured about it, namely [Zech., xii. 12]: "And the land will mourn, every family apart by itself, the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart." And they said: Is this not an a fortiori conclusion? At the time of mourning, when the passions are powerless, it is said the women and the men should be separate; so much the more in the Temple, where they were occupied in rejoicing, and the passions can have power over them. The rabbis taught: Messiah BEN DAVID, who (as we hope) will appear in the near future, the Holy One, blessed be He, will say to him: Ask something of me and I will give it to thee, as it is written [Ps. ii. 7-8]: "I will announce the decree . . . Ask it of me, and I will give," etc. But as the Messiah BEN DAVID will have seen that the Messiah BEN JOSEPH who preceded him was killed, he will say before the Lord: Lord of the Universe, I will ask nothing of Thee but life. And the Lord will answer: This was prophesied already for thee by thy father David [Ps. xxi. 5]: "Life hath he asked of thee, thou gavest it to him." Sukkah 52 Raphael Patai, a Jewish Bible scholar who does not believe in Yeshua, sheds considerable light on the history of this rabbinical legend about the Messiah, in his book, The Messiah Texts. Patai writes: “Scholars have repeatedly speculated about the origin of the Messiah BEN Joseph legend and the curious fact that the Messiah figure has thus been split in two. It would seem that in the early legend, the death of the Messiah was envisaged, perhaps as a development of the SUFFERING SERVANT motif. A prophecy of Daniel, written about 164 B.C.E.,[18] is the earliest source speaking of the DEATH of a Mashiah (‘Anointed’) sixty-two (prophetic) weeks...after the return and the rebuilding of Jerusalem (Dan. 9:24-26...)....When the death of the Messiah became an established tenet in Talmudic times, this was felt to be irreconcilable with the belief in the Messiah as the Redeemer who would usher in the blissful millennium of the Messianic age. The dilemma was solved by splitting the person of the Messiah in two: One of them, called Messiah BEN JOSEPH...would fall victim....The other, Messiah BEN DAVID, will come after him...and will lead Israel to the ultimate victory, the triumph, and the Messianic era of bliss. This splitting of the Messiah in two persons, which took place in the Talmudic period, achieved another purpose besides resolving the dilemma of the slain Messiah. According to an old tradition, the Messiah was perfectly prefigured in Moses. But Moses died before he could lead the Children of Israel into the Land of Promise. Consequently, for the parallel to be complete, the Messiah, too had to die before accomplishing his great task of ultimate Redemption. Since, however, the Messiah would not be the True Redeemer of God if he did not fulfill that ultimate task, the only solution was to let one Messiah, like Moses, die, and then assign the completion of the work of Redemption to a second Messiah....” Raphael Patai, The Messiah Texts, pp. 166-167. What was the mourning for? R. Dosa and the rabbis differ: One holds that it was for the Messiah the SON OF JOSEPH, who was killed; 1 and one holds that it was for the evil angel, who was killed. 2 It would be right according to one who holds that it was for the Messiah the son of Joseph, because he explains as supporting him the passage [Zech. xii.10]: "And they will look up toward me (for every one) whom they have thrust through, and they will lament for him, as one lamenteth for an only son, nd weep bitterly for him, as one weepeth bitterly for the firstborn" Mosheh Alshekh (16th century) interpretation of Z'kharyah 12:10: I will do yet a third thing, and that is, that “they shall look unto me,” for they shall lift up their eyes unto me in perfect repentance, when they see him whom they pierced, that is Messiah, the SON OF YOSEPH; for our rabbis, of blessed memory, have said that he will take upon himself all the guilt of Israel, and shall then be slain…to make an atonement, in such a manner, that it shall be accounted as if Israel had pierced him, for on account of their sin he has died; and therefore, in order that it may be reckoned to them as a perfect atonement, they will repent, and look to the blessed One, saying that there is none beside Him to forgive those that mourn on account of him who died for their sin: this is the meaning of “They shall look upon me.” Rashi commenting on Zech xii. 10 - - The words, “The land shall mourn,” are found in the prophecy of Z'kharyah, and he prophesies of the future, that they shall mourn on account of Messiah, the SON OF YOSEPH, who shall be slain… MESSIAH NAME Lamentations Rabba 1:51 What is the name of King Messiah? Rabbi Abba bar Kahana said: Y-H-W-H is His name, for it is written, I will raise for David a tzemach of righteousness …In his days Y'hudah shall be saved…And this is the Name whereby he shall be called: YHWH Tzidkenu (YHWH our Righteousness) (Yirmeyahu 23:5-6).” Babylonian Talmud, Order Nashim, Tractate Baba Bathra 75b: Rabbi Sh'muel bar Nahmani said in the name of Rabbi Yohanan: “Three are called by the name of HaQadosh baruch hu (the Set-Apart One, blessed be He), and they are: the righteous, the Messiah and Yerushalayim.” HIGHER THAN MOSES AND ANGELS Yalkut ii: 571 (13th century): The King Messiah…is greater than the patriarchs, as it is said, “My servant shall be high, and lifted up, and lofty exceedingly”—he will be higher than Abraham,…lifted up above Moshe,…loftier than the ministering angels. METATRON Sanhedrin 38b Once a Min said to R. Idith: It is written, "And unto Moses He said, Come up to the LORD." But surely it should have stated, Come up unto Me! — It was Metatron [who said that], he replied, whose name is similar to that of his Master, for it is written, For My name is in Him. But if so, [he retorted,] we should worship him! The same passage, however, — replied R. Idith says: Be not rebellious against him, i.e., exchange Me not for Him. But if so, why is it stated: He will not pardon your transgression? He answered: By our troth we would not accept him even as a messenger, for it is written, "And he said unto him, If Thy [personal] presence go not etc." Stockholm's erstwhile chief Rabbi, Professor Gottlieb Klein, in a work published in 1898, sets forth Metatron's main features as portrayed in the Jewish literature: "Metatron is the nearest person to God, serving Him; on the one hand his confident and delegate, on the other hand the representative of Israel before God... Metatron is also known as Sar ha-Panîm, the 'Prince of the Countenance' or just as 'the Prince', and he sits in God's innermost chamber (penim). The numeric value of 'Metatron' is the same as that of Shaddai, 'the Almighty'. He is therefore the delegate of the Almighty. Shaddai (10+4+300) = 314 and Metatron (50+6+200+9+9+40) = 314." ---------------------------------------------------- Prev: 16. THE DEPTH OF REPENTANCE Next: TODAYS NEWS SUMMARIES - UCI ------------------------------------------------- reply share, 5 CommentsChronological: replyandrewidodo wrote on Jun 20 Amen Marlene. In this pasuk (verse) we find the only passage in the entire Torah where Moses explicitly identifies himself as a prophet of the LORD. Moreover, this is also the only passage where Moses identifies the coming of the Mashiach as “a Prophet like me”. The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers - it is to him you shall listen. (Deut 18:15) In the Brit Chadashah (New Testament) we read that the soferim (scribes) had sent a delegation to question Yochanon the Immerser (John the Baptist), asking him two questions: * "Are you Elijah?" (John 1:21) - This referred to Malachi's prophecy (Mal. 4:5) that Elijah would come as a messenger before the appearance of the Messiah. To this day Jews around the world still set out a cup of wine for Elijah at Passover - in anticipation of the his arrival as the forerunner of the Messiah. * "Are you the Prophet?" (John 1:21). This referred to Moses' prophecy that God would send "a Prophet like me" (Deut. 18:15-19). We further read that when Philip encounterd Nathanael, he said, "We have found Him of whom Moses in the law, and also the prophets, wrote - Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph" (John 1:45). After Jesus fed the five thousand, the people began to ask if this was "the Prophet who is to come into the world" (John 6:14). Peter identified Yeshua as the Prophet (Acts 3:22-23), and in his apologetic before the Sanhedrin, Stephen the martyr declared that Yeshua was the promised Messiah: "This is that Moses who said to the children of Israel, 'The lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear.' " (Acts 7:37-38). Yeshua is the Jewish Messiah. Blessing, Andre --------------------------------------- replymalga wrote on Jun 21 I am so glad to be able to stay in touch with you again. Three days ago I sent you a private message where I said how proud I was of you. I also said of a very close friend I have here in Poland, who is a Jewish Christian too. He was rejected by most Orthodox Jews but also very often he is discriminated by so-called Christians ( People who are Christians only by name but who do not actually belong to Jesus). I can sympathise with him so very much. I suppose it must be often difficult for you to be a Jew and a Christian too. Because I know how much it costs my dear friend here in Poland, I am especially honoured to have another friend like him, in the heart of the Holy Land- YOU MARLENE!!!! Keep doing your wonderful work of evangelising! There may be some who will hate you for this but...........NEVER, absolutely NEVER GIVE UP!!!!! You are so very special and so much blessed! Keep growing in Messiah's love. May Good God bless you, your family and your ministry! May He empowers your words with signs and wonders!!!!!!!! Malga ------------------------------------------------- replymishkaned wrote on Jun 21 Thank you my very beautiful friend! --------------------------------------------------- replymalga wrote on Jun 21 You are so beautiful, Marlene! I thank you so very much!  from the Yit's page: http://shulem.multiply.com/journal/item/707/Women_In_Islam--DIRTY_CREATURESHat Tip to Sammy At Yid with Lid Posted: 18 Jun 2008 08:02 AM CDT Over the course of the centuries, women have complained about their role in religion. In my Jewish faith, there have been debates about women leading prayer, being clergy etc. The interesting part of the debate is the fact that both sides argue their case using a healthy respect for women as major part of their argument. Many Observant Jews consider women to be God's crowning achievement, after all she was the last creature created. In Judaism, family name and earthly 'goods" are passed through the father, but the most important gift, our ties to God, can only be passed through the mother-that is the truest indication of the perception of women. Islam comes from a totally different direction. Islam considers women to be Dirty Creatures, who must be dominated by man. This isn't my opinion but this is what is described in the Faith's own writings: In Islam’s Own Writings: Allah and His Messenger’s Extreme Hatred of Women by Larry Houle 18 Jun, 2008 In the laws of Allah, a women is worth half a man. Women are dirty, vile, evil creatures that must be kept hidden. Following are few examples of example demonstrating women's horrible status and treatment in Islam's own writings: Muslim Women are Dirty Polluting Creatures The Quran: Sura (2:222) “They ask thee concerning women's courses. Say: They are a hurt and a pollution: So keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean.” Sura 4:43 “Muslims, draw not near unto prayer…(if) ye have touched women…then go to high clean soil and rub your face and your hands.” (Muslim women are pariahs and dirty).” Sura (5:6) - "...if ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it." Women are polluting. Men purify themselves following a casual contact with a woman. Women are inferior, slave to men The Quran: Sura (2:228) - "And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And God is Exalted in Power, Wise.” Sura (4:11) - God (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females. (see also Sura 4:176) Sura (4:176) “They ask thee for a legal decision. Say: God directs (thus) about those who leave no descendants or ascendants as heirs. ... if there are brothers and sisters, (they share), the male having twice the share of the female.” Sura (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." (i.e., Angels, the sublime beings, can only be male.) Sura (37:149-155) “Now ask them their opinion: Is it that thy Lord has (only) daughters, and they have sons?- Or that We created the angels female, and they are witnesses (thereto)? Is it not that they say, from their own invention, "God has begotten children"? but they are liars! Did He (then) choose daughters rather than sons? What is the matter with you? How judge ye? Will ye not then receive admonition?” Hadith: Bukhari (88:219) Narrated Abu Bakra: During the battle of Al-Jamal, Allah benefited me with a Word (I heard from the Prophet). When the Prophet heard the news that the people of the Persia had made the daughter of Khosrau their Queen (ruler), he said, "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler." Bukhari (48:826) Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind." Bukhari (72:715) - A woman seeks Muhammad's help in leaving an abusive marriage, but is ordered by the prophet to return to her husband and submit to his commands. Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing” (i.e., Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in the Qur’an.) Tabari I:280 “’I must also make Eve (bad word), although I created her intelligent.’ Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are (bad word).”)…happy, content…utterly incapable from intellectual weakness…never to give us trouble… Bukhari 6:301 ("[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'" "[Muhammad said] 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her religion.'" Allah has made women deficient in the practice of their religion as well, by giving them menstrual cycles.) Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." Bukhari (62:58) - A woman presents herself in marriage to Muhammad, but he does not find her attractive, so he "donates" her on the spot to another man. Abu Dawud (2:704) - "...the Apostle of Allah said: When one of you prays without a sutrah, a dog, an ass, a pig, a Jew, a Magian, and a woman cut off his prayer, but it will suffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stone's throw." God reduces one half of humanity to the status of a dog, a pig, a monkey, or an ass Sahih Bukhari – 1.9.490, 493, 498 Sahih Muslim – 4.1039; Sunaan Abu Dawud – 11.2155; Mishkat ul-Masabih – vol 2, p.114, Hadis no. Ishaq 593 - "From the captives of Hunayn, Allah's Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another." (Even in this world, Muhammad treated women like party favors, handing out slave girls to his cronies for sex.) Ishaq 969 - "Men were to lay injunctions on women lightly, for they were prisoners of men and had no control over their persons." - This same text also justifies beating women for flirting. Muslim women are sex object for men's enjoyment From Quran: Sura (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will." Wives are to be sexually available to their husbands in all ways at all times. They serve their husbands at his command. This verse refers to anal sex (see Bukhari 60:51), and was "revealed" when women complained to Muhammad about the practice. The phrase "when and how you will" means that they lost their case. From Hadith: Bukhari (62:81) Narrated 'Uqba: The Prophet said: "The stipulations most entitled to be abided by are those with which you are given the right to enjoy the (women's) private parts (i.e. the stipulations of the marriage contract)." Bukhari 7:62:132 Narrated 'Abdullah bin Zam'a: The Prophet said, |
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